Interview: Jamie Nonis on Growing up Gay in a Conservative Asian Society
In this reverse interview, Jamie’s cousin Stacey Nonis interviews her on how she first discovered she was gay and what it was like growing up in a conservative Asian society and feeling like she didn’t belong. She opens up about her struggles with self-acceptance and feeling like she had to hide her true identity for fear of being ostracised by friends, coming out to family and navigating family dynamics.
Q: When did you know you were gay?
J: I had an inkling that I was gay I think when I was about 8 years old. I remember having a major crush on this girl in school. I was in Primary 2 and she was in Primary 6, and every morning, I really looked forward to assembly because then I’ll get to see her. That’s how I knew that I was different.
And every time I watched TV and there were movies or shows and there was an intimate scene between a man and a woman, I remember always wanting or pretending or fantasising in my head that I was the guy.
Oh, one more thing. As a kid growing up, my dad and my brother used to always run around the house with their T-shirts off, bare-bodied, and that was something that I always kind of envied and I always wished that I can could do that as well. So I kind of always wanted to be one of the boys since I was young.
Q: At the time when you were young, did you think any of that was ‘normal’?
J: On some level, I knew that it was not normal, so I kind of hid these things for a long, long time – these desires, these wishes. I remember I was really, really young – and my mum always tells this story till today – where I was a toddler and I refused to wear a dress. I think it was my birthday and they were insisting that I wear a dress, and I just cried and bawled my eyes out andI insisted on wearing my baju, which is actually Malay for ‘clothes’ but for some reason, it was supposed to mean slacks and long pants. I think that was one of the first inklings that they had that I was also tomboyish. But it definitely was not something easy to accept. In fact, it took me my entire life to try to come to acceptance and the early years were really rough, trying to understand what was going on inside me. And at that time there was no internet, so I had no clue and I remember trying to hide this aspect of me, with my classmates and all and when I’m around my classmates. And I remember always feeling like I hope they don’t have a clue, I hope they don’t suspect that I’m into girls because I’ll be ostracised, or they’ll think I’m a freak.
Q: So it sounds like you were afraid of rejection?
J: Yeah, rejection is definitely one thing because when you’re young, you’re looking for a sense of belonging, and feeling like you don’t belong wherever you go… that’s a really difficult thing to have to grapple with when you’re really young and you’re trying to understand what’s going on with you.
Q: Did you have anyone that you could talk to about these things at all?
J: You mean in like primary school age?
Q: Yeah, a best friend, maybe?
J: No, definitely not. In fact, I also remember up to the age of 12, I was still trying to hide this aspect of myself from my best friends. And it was very uncomfortable because in a girls’ school, everyone’s open or they would hug each other or show some sort of affection. And I remember always trying not to be close to my friends who were girls because I was afraid that they might have some inkling and suspect something and then my secret will be out and I’ll be mocked and made fun of or worse, ostracised.
Q: That does sound very challenging for a 12-year-old to have to deal with.
J: Yeah, the world is different right now; it’s a lot more open with the internet and everything. But back then in the ’80s, we had like no information. And I did not even know what the word “lesbian” meant until I was like probably in my early teens. But growing up, just feeling that something’s not quite right with you and feeling wrong about yourself, was really challenging. Especially when you’re just forming your identity and you don’t know what your place in the world is.
A young Jamie (left) with her cousin Stacey.
Q: So you mentioned earlier that your family had an inkling that you’re quite a tomboy. What was it like to come out to them?
J: I never officially came out to my family, like my parents, for example. But when I was about 15, I cut my hair really short and then I became more of a tomboy and it was very, very obvious and they just knew, obviously. And then, I bring girlfriends to family functions and stuff like that, so it was an open thing but not talked about in a very, very overt way.
Q: And do you get any curious questions from your family members about these girls that you bring or introduce?
J: No, it’s more of “We’re not going to make a fuss about it but… ” It’s more of like, “I don’t know if we’re entirely comfortable with it…”.
Q: But they don’t seem like they’re too cold…
J: No, they’ve always been warm and welcoming to any of the girls that I’ve brought for functions, I mean, those I was in relationship with. So they’ve accepted them into the family. Some of my exes have gotten really close to the family and they’re still like family friends in way now. But I won’t say that they really ask questions about my relationships, and I’ve never really talked about my relationships to my family, to my parents, no.
Q: Just your friends?
J: Yeah, just friends.
Q: As your cousin, I know that the family sometimes makes jokes like, “Oh, I hope Jamie finds a nice man to settle down with” and so on and so forth. What goes through your mind when you hear something like that being said?
J: Well, sometimes I think it’s funny, like, are they in denial still or are they just hoping or hoping in vain or, I don’t know. But I guess, if I put myself in their shoes as a parent, as an elder, I guess I could understand where they’re coming from and why they would want for me to sort of settle down in the traditional way because I suppose there’s more security, because there’s more acceptance in society, and life is just “easier that way”, right? So I can understand where they’re coming from. But personally, I think it’s funny sometimes if they still think that it’s possible. I don’t know but who knows, right, what the future has in store for us?
Q: What do you think about the LGBT+ movement in Singapore as of now?
J: The entire world is progressing but Singapore seems to be still very, very stuck and it’s true, it’s a society that’s very divided on this issue and I get it, I understand. On a personal basis, obviously, I hope that we will be as progressive as some of our Asian counterparts and the world in general. We are world-class in so many ways; it’s about time our society reflects that in terms of these human rights issues as well. I know several friends who have actually left the country because they wanted to start families. So it would help to stem outflow of Singaporeans as well who could be contributing to our economy. And on a personal basis, sometimes I think about what if I want to start a family, am I going to do it here? If the laws were changed, it would help a little bit, I feel. It will take a while for society to completely change their stance, for conservatives to relax a little bit, but it’ll be a good step forward, at least.
Right now, what I want is to actually thear from the views of a lot of different people, the different views, not just the views of the LGBTQ+ community. I want to hear the views of the conservative Christians, the conservative Muslims, I want to hear why they feel the way they do. Quoting the bible is one thing, but what I personally would really want to hear are the personal stories of the people and LGBTQ+ individuals themselves, as well as their loved ones around them who may be struggle with coming to terms with this, with acceptance and things like that. Because I think there are so many layers to this entire issue that may not have been really explored in-depth. So that’s what I hope to do with this podcast going forward; to talk to a lot of different individuals and hear their personal stories.
I’ve never been the activist sort, but as I get older, perhaps these issues become more and more important because there are a lot of implications on family, family dynamics, family units and things like that. Personally, I just want to do my little bit to help give voice to this community.
Transcribed by Natasha Pestana