Interview: Kelly Leow on Why the LGBTQ+ Community Needs More Straight Allies
“You don’t have to be gay to be a supporter — you just have to be human.”
In this interview* between SPEQ:TRUM Creator & Host Jamie Nonis and Kelly Leow, a passionate ally of the LGBTQ+ community, we talk about empathy and having the courage to stand up for the LGBTQ+ community in the face of homophobic comments, why having straight allies can be even more powerful for the community and its causes, and how you can support.
*The following interview took place in late 2018, when Kelly was volunteering with The T Project. She is now Communications Manager at gender equality group AWARE Singapore.
Q: To set the context, you’re basically straight, right? I think a lot of people will be curious as to what drives you to be part of this cause and community.
K: Yes, I went to UCLA when I was 19. So I lived outside of Singapore from the ages of 19 to 27, so 8 years, and I just moved back. When I tell people that I volunteer for The T Project, and when I meet LGBT+ people in general, I tell them that I am involved in activism in the community, [and] I tend to get the same kind of reactions over and over again. I get a kind of up-and-down look, they’re like, “Oh, but you’re not trans?” And I’m like, “Yeah, I’m not trans, I’m a straight cis woman.”
Cis meaning not trans. Cisgender means it’s the opposite of trans; it means that you are born with the gender identity that corresponds to your sex. Whereas trans people are born with a gender identity that does not correspond to their sex.
So a lot of people have been like, “Oh, but you’re cis, right?” And I’m like, “Yah, I’m cis, I’m straight.” So first of all, I get people assuming that I’m gay, assuming that I’m trans in some way. And then once I say that “No, I’m not”, then I get, “Oh, but surely one of your family members...”, including June herself, The T Project founder. When I went, “Oh, I’m just a straight cis.” And she was like, “Your mother? Your father?” She went on this whole long list of people that she might be have been trans or behave in some way, she was like, “Your mother, your father, your boyfriend, your ex-boyfriend, your boyfriend’s aunt, your uncle, your cousin” and she just went on and on. And I was like, “No, no, no, no, no. I mean, I have LGBT+ friends but I have felt that this was important from before I met them.”
Q: Where does this passion to support this community come from then?
K: I’ve never thought about this until this year. Now that I look back at my childhood and my teenage years, I can trace it back to three important moments in my life that kind of cemented this conviction from me. When I was 17, I watched the HBO version of Angels in America, which is a Pulitzer-prize winning play by Tony Kushner, an American playwright. The play itself is about gay men in the ’80s who were struggling with HIV. And they made an HBO version of the play in the 2000s. And I watched it on HBO and it’s just one of the best plays. It is, I think, the best play ever made, ever written and meaningful works of art that I’ve ever encountered in my life.
Q: What was it about the play that struck you so much?
K: It presents a really, really sympathetic--the characters, their struggles with AIDS; it’s so moving, and they really go through the full depths of despair and everything in between. And I think it’s impossible to watch that play or read the play, which I later did, and not feel moved by these characters which are not even real people.
Q: But the characters were mainly transgender or?
K: No, they’re not trans. I mean, some of them refer to drag, but they’re gay men. Yeah, I would say that my affinity with the LGBT+ movement does not stop at trans, even though I do mainly volunteer in the trans space. I care about all of it.
LGBTQ+ ally Kelly Leow, former volunteer at The T Project, who now works as a Communications Manager at gender equality group, AWARE Singapore
Q: So you’ve been always championing different causes since you were young in junior college?
K: I think JC was the first time where I’ve realised, “Oh, okay I actually feel differently about this than everybody else”. And I had always assumed that I was not the only one but in JC, I was like, “Oh, I am quite alone in this, at least in this social circle.” And there was a day where there was a bunch of kids and me, and one of them was--I think she’s a very sweet, nice person and I think she is Christian, and I think that one of the other people in the group was someone who I now know for sure is gay – at that time he wasn’t out but we all knew – and I remember we were talking and then that Christian girl said something homophobic and I just remember, in that moment, thinking “I don’t know what to do.” I was like, “Oh, she just said that and my friend is right here” – the one who I pretty much know is gay – “and I literally have no idea what to say, and I’m just going to ignore this because I feel so uncomfortable and I don’t know what to do.”
Q: So inherently, you felt that it was wrong for her to say that?
K: Yeah, I knew that it was wrong. I knew that what she was saying is wrong and that I disagreed, and I felt angry because I felt that she must know, maybe she didn’t know but either way, he was there, she was there, I was there. And I did not do what I think I would do now, which is to say, “Hey, that’s not okay for you to say that. With or without the person standing there, it’s not okay for you to express that homophobic point of view.” But I did not say that and ever since, I’ve looked back on that day as a day which I feel like I failed my gay friend. And I wish I could say sorry to him but he probably doesn’t remember it.
When I was in LA, I have to say I hardly thought about LGBT+ causes just because – this seems naïve to say or ’cos I’ve lived in the States – but it just was not as pressing of a concern in LA. California is so progressive. In many ways you can kind of just live as if gay rights are established everywhere; it’s not a question anymore in some circles, including the circles that I was in. So I honestly didn’t give much thought to it. There were things that seem so much more pressing like homelessness, climate change, other things that I did feel that anger and I did act on those things in LA, but I have to say the LGBTQ+ [issue] itself was not foremost in my mind.
Q: So how did you feel when you came back to Singapore and saw this huge contrast about what the LGBT+ narrative is like?
K: I have to say that in the US when I was there, I could already see from social media that things were changing. Now there are ways – Instagram, Facebook, Twitter – for people to connect with other people who share their views and I feel that the kind of ground for LGBT+ activism is so much more fertile now because of that technological shift. So I actually felt like there is progress. There has been a decent amount of progress in the past 10 years.
Q: How do you feel about this progress? Do you think it’s enough at this stage or do you feel that the community should push for more?
K: I definitely don’t think it’s enough. I’m surprised at how optimistic I feel about it, you know, going to Pink Dot this year and just in general, because I handle The T Project’s Instagram, I get a lot of direct messages from people who are followers, and I am really heartened and cheered by the amount of positive private messages and public comments that we get at The T Project. I expected there to be a lot more hate speech when I took this on. But I have to say, maybe because the transgender side of LGBT+ is still relatively unknown to most people, I think when most people think LGBT+, they think gay and so the gay organisations I feel are where a lot of hate gets directed. Trans, not so much.
Q: Really?
K: Yeah, right now, at least. Maybe when trans becomes more ubiquitous and people know about it, that will change but as of right now, I would say we get 99% positive messages.
Q: That’s cool. Speaking about the community, what would you think is the most misunderstood thing about the transgender community in Singapore?
K: I feel a little bit not qualified to answer this question because not being a member of the transgender community, my involvement is a little bit more indirect. But overall, I think that people don’t know that it exists.
Q: Oh, really?
K: Yeah, I think that people don’t. It’s kind of, out of sight, out of mind for a lot of people.
Q: Okay. I would think though that they are more in sight because they’re more obvious than, say, a femme lesbian who may not be as obvious.
K: No, I don’t think that. It’s different for a transman. There are transmen in my different fields. But I don’t know how many people even realise that their colleagues and their friends are trans.
Q: That’s interesting. About [Section] 377A, from technical standpoint, it does not really affect the trans community. But do you think that there’s any implication at all if it were to be repealed?
K: I would say, firstly, it does actually--okay, so transgender as an umbrella term, the definition is just people whose gender identity does not correspond with their sex. So you can be transgender and not have gone through sexual reassignment surgery, you don’t have to have gone through any hormones, you don’t have to have gone through any surgery to still be transgender. You could be transgender and you can transition in terms of just changing your name. You can transition in terms of changing your pronouns. It does affect some parts.
Q: Wait, you can actually change your name and change your sex on your IC, without going through the surgery. Is that right?
K: That, you’re going to have to ask June, I’m not totally sure about that. That’s a legal question for Singapore but in general, transgender means anybody who just does not correspond with their sex. So for the many transwomen who still have a penis and when they have sex with men, it would still be a criminal offence under 377A, so it does actually affect the transgender community.
Q: Could you tell us more about the Alicia Community Centre (ACC), which is run by the The T Project?
K: Yes, Alicia Community Centre is something that June has been wanting to set up for a long time and finally, she acquired the space to do it in Singapore. So we have this small space now in a mall.
Q: Where is it?
K: It’s in the Kovan area. It’s really small; that’s the amount of space that we could afford to rent. So it’s designed as a community centre for trans people, both male and female, and it’s going to provide a few different functions. One of them is peer counselling, which means counselling specifically provided by a trans counsellor who obviously can understand and relate to your issues as a trans person.
Q: Wow, a qualified trained trans counsellor.
K: Yes, exactly. There’s also going to be a trans library with literature by and about trans people. There’s going to be a trans museum--I don’t want to say museum because I think that sounds like a giant space--but I think June intends to exhibit pieces of local trans history of which Singapore has a long and very rich history with Bugis Street and all that. So June has been collecting pieces of local trans history and she intends to display them in this space. And the goal is to create a safe space for trans people to come and meet other people and be themselves and not feel like they have to hide in public. I think obviously it’s great that they can be themselves online but there’s a world of difference between being yourself online and being yourself in person with your peers.
Also, what I personally love about Alicia Community Centre is that while the shelter is for homeless transwomen, which is a very, very small niche within the larger trans community, ACC welcomes all trans people, people who are gender non-conforming, people who are non-binary, gender fluid, gender queer.
“Empathy is a muscle that you can develop and I think exposing people to the arts – to good art – increases empathy.”
Q: It does sound exciting and I would love to come visit. I think what’s interesting is if we could talk about straight allies and why is it so important for there to be straight allies like yourself.
K: Yes, I feel like the question that we should be asking is why should straight people care about this thing that really doesn’t affect them personally, to which I have many answers. The thing that resonates most with me is the injustice of it. I feel that there’s overwhelming scientific and otherwise evidence that sexual orientation is not something that is within anyone’s control. So just the fact that people are being discriminated against and oppressed because of something that is completely outside of their control, that in itself is aggravating and upsetting enough to me. That’s unacceptable and I just want to help in any way. Secondly, I think it’s about empathy. I feel like the word “empathy” is said so often these days and I feel like people don’t think about what it actually means. But what it actually means is being able to relate to and imagine how someone who is not yourself feels and lives their life and perhaps suffers in ways that you don’t suffer. And I think that when people say, “Oh, it’s just feelings”, you think, “Oh well, someone either has empathy or they don’t have empathy, there’s nothing that can change.” But I actually think empathy is like a muscle that you can develop and I think that--I studied literature, I am involved in filmmaking, I’m very much an arts person--and I think exposing people to the arts – to good art – only increases empathy. I really think that it’s as easy as that. Sometimes when I tell people, “Oh, I volunteer for The T Project, I volunteer in LGBT causes”, when I tell gay people that, I’ve gotten the response of kind of guilt on their part where they’re like, “Oh, damn, I’m not doing that much and I’m gay, and I’m not doing that much for the gay community.”
Q: I think a lot of the reason why we [LGBTQ+ people] don’t [do more] is because we’re still struggling with accepting ourselves. And for the longest time, I actually disassociated myself from the community because I was engulfed in all that shame. So it is about self-actualisation; getting yourself to a state where you’re able to fully embrace yourself, then you can help others.
K: That’s true. This gets to what I see as the contradictions of being an ally, where on one hand, I’d say the pros of being an ally in this space or the pros of being an LGBT+ person who has an ally to work with in this space, [is that] I don’t have to deal with that kind of shame. Obviously, it sucks that you felt that way and that people feel that way. I am lucky enough that I don’t have to feel that way and as a result I think, in some sense, it’s easier for me to deal with things like hate speech or whatever. I am very happy to act as a human buffer for that. Especially because I’m working in the media space with The T Project, like I’m the media coordinator basically, so if there’s someone making hurtful comments on social media, I will be seeing them, and I am more than happy to be the one who absorbs those hateful comments and chooses whether or not to pass them on to the actual LGBT+ people that I work with. Sometimes, obviously if it’s a matter of security, if someone sounds like they’re dangerous, I will. But if it’s just some harmless or emotionally harmful, like just stupid comments, I’m not going to pass it on. Obviously, that affects me too. I’m not saying that that kind of hateful comment thing doesn’t affect me, of course it does, it makes me sick. But it’s not going to derail my personal identity and progress in the way that I assume it might for LGBT+ people so I’m more than happy to be that shield. And I think if you were an LGBT+ leader, if you’re wondering what are allies good for, this is one thing that they are good for.
Q: How do you guys deal or respond to this kind of hate speech?
K: Well, like I said, we don’t get that much of it, so I actually have not been having to decide. I mean, I’m sure it will happen and when it happens, I’ll deal with it. But so far, I have to say the online T Project community has been extremely positive, it’s actually great.
Q: You know, you brought up a really, really interesting point because I’ve noticed on my personal Facebook feed, for example, when a straight friend says something pro-LGBT+ community, they get a massive amount of likes But when I do it, it’s just a handful. And I’ve been trying to figure this out. And again, whenever I put that kind of stuff out there, I’m putting myself in a vulnerable position because I know that I am basically putting myself out there to be judged, to be condemned, to be criticised. But I’ve noticed this pattern and I find it very intriguing. Do you have any thoughts on this as a straight ally?
K: Are they Singaporeans?
Q: Yes, mostly.
K: I think partly the reason is that--this corresponds to my experience where everybody’s shocked that I’m straight and volunteering--there is a scarcity of straight allies who are as involved and vocal as they could be. So I think at this point in Singapore’s LGBT+ activism, there still is a need for straight people to come out as allies and when they do, correspondingly they are rewarded with likes.
Q: To me, as someone in the community, I’ll look at it and I feel like are they being politically correct and is it because they’re being politically correct that they get rewarded for it? And I’m, like, wtf. You know, when I’m part of the community, I share my struggle, I share my pain, but it’s not received the same way. I feel it’s just a weird disconnect.
K: The reason I wanted to come on this [show] is that I want to tell people that LGBT+ rights are not just for LGBT+ people, it’s really for everyone. So hopefully there will be a day where it doesn’t matter who is posting these things – straight or gay – they get the same amount of likes. But until then, I will say that this is something that I worry about a lot as an ally, because the fact is, as an ally, I am not affected, I personally am not going to be arrested, I’m not affected by this. My friends and family might be but I’m not. And especially as someone who works in the media and I write words that are read by members of the community, I wonder about this a lot: Who am I to be saying these things? Who am I to be speaking on behalf of this community that’s not me? Is this genuine? Is it not authentic? And gay people have a complete right to distrust straight people. I think, historically, straight people have done so much more damage than good.
“I think you are a straight ally if you are a parent of a gay child and you are getting involved in their lives and accepting them as a gay child.”
Q: Are there a lot of straight allies in the community or in The T Project?
K: There are a lot of straight allies, that’s the thing. There are straight allies who are involved, not all of whom identify as activist, but I think you are a straight ally if you are an artist who is shining a spotlight on the LGBT+ community with your art even though you are straight. I think you are a straight ally if you are a parent of a gay child and you are getting involved in their lives and accepting them as a gay child. I think you’re an ally if you are straight but if you signed the repeal petition and you showed up to the town hall. I think you are an ally if you go to the Free Community Church, which is a church that has historically always been friendly and open to LGBT+ members. So people are allies in many, many different ways.
Yes, there are lots of straight allies out there. I don’t want to make it seem like I’m the only straight ally. There’s lots of straight allies but I do feel that there could be more. Someone speaking at the town hall said, “Straight allies need to come out more as well. Repealing 377A will enable straight allies to come out as well.” And I agree. I think that more straight allies need to be vocal about this. If this something that you believe in, put your money where your mouth is and get involved.
Q: Does your family know about your involvement in the community?
K: Yes, they know.
Q: How do they feel about it?
K: They feel great about it. My parents are extremely progressive. I think that’s why it seems so shocking to me when I found out as a kid that other people did not agree with me because in my household it was not a thing. Going back to what you were saying before when people are posting Facebook things where they’re like, “I’m an ally, I get lots of likes, hey!” I think about that a lot. I worry about that because am I like a tourist? Am I just a straight ally who can just kind of come in and be like, “Yeah, let’s do this stuff! But it doesn’t affect me, I’m safe. This is just an abstract concept to me, there’s no bearing, there’s no repercussions on me, I’m just going to leave if something gets bad. Bye!” I think about that all the time and in my moments of doubt especially, I’m like, “Shit, I am, like that’s me. I am a privileged Chinese, middle class, educated, able-bodied woman. I’m straight, I can leave whenever I want to.”
Q: So how do you reconcile with that?
K: I try really hard to reconcile with that. And what I tell myself, and if anyone was to accuse me of being a tourist, is that I don’t think this is a tourist thing. It’s not a temporary thing that I’m curious about. I have identified as an ally since I can remember; it wasn’t a conscious choice. I cannot but feel this way, like I have to feel this way. And I will always feel this way, and I will never not be an ally. There’s never going to be a time when I’m going to be, “Hey, I’m done. Bye. You guys deal with this yourselves.” No, I will always care about this. I want to say to people who are allies, who are considering getting involved, who are maybe afraid that it’s not their place, yeah, there are situations in which it might not be your place but there are situations in which it is your place and you should. And there are ways to be an everyday entry-level volunteer like myself and still make a difference. So if you are on the fence, I think you should look harder into doing something.
Q: I think nobody can deny that you’re clearly passionate about this issue. Could you share what your experience has been like working directly with the community?
K: In terms of the difference that I’ve made, I mean, I would say my personal difference has been measured in the amount of money that we raised for the campaign because that was what I was most involved in. I mean, S$60,000 is a lot of money to The T Project, it really is. So I am happy and I’m proud that I was able to help raise that amount of money. I don’t have a huge amount of interaction with the shelter residents, which is as it should be; I think that they should be able to live their own lives. The thing with The T Project is that we do a lot of public-facing stuff and that does not involve the residents at all. The residents have their own lives in the shelter. Whatever June does as a spokeswoman – panels and events – that is kind of separate to the shelter. We do have some workshops that are sponsored by AWARE that we’ve just started doing. And one of them that I went to was a suicide prevention workshop and I was struck. Being there and hearing all the transwomen that came to this – there were maybe 20 transwomen – and when the moderator was like, “Who amongst you has had either a personal experience with feeling suicidal or known someone that has committed suicide?”, there was hardly anyone who didn’t put up their hand, and I was shocked by that. I would’ve maybe guessed, but it’s something else to guess in an abstract way, and it’s something else to see everybody be, “Yep, me, I’ve tried to commit suicide many times.” And I was just, “Oh my God.” And I guess no amount of preparation or knowledge can prepare you for being in a room of people who are all “I have ever tried to commit suicide” or “my sister committed suicide” or “my best friend committed suicide”. It’s really rough out there for a transwoman. I think people don’t realise how bad it is. It is a very pressing need. Even just in the past 10 months that I’ve been involved in The T Project, the amount of people who have either over private message or in person at Pink Dot, for example, people came up to us and were, “How can I get counselling from you guys?”, I’ve been surprised at how many people have reached out to us. And it’s not just a class thing, it’s not just people who are financially less secure; there are middle class trans people too who maybe on the surface seem to be coping. But they need counselling, too. Mental health obviously does not discriminate by class. So, yeah, I think there’s a huge need for counselling services for the trans community and we are making a very small step in providing some but there should be more.
Q: Could you share what other support or resources you need right now to help you guys further your vision and cause?
K: If there are people interested in volunteering at Alicia Community Centre, please reach out to us. There’s a volunteer form on our website that you can fill out. Beyond that, if I’m talking specifically to straight allies, yes, they should volunteer but they can also donate. Like I said, I’ve been heartened by the amount of straight people who’ve reached out to us. For example, during the campaign, one of the donor rewards that we gave out were T-shirts and those T-shirts were designed by two people who are from the company Not A Public Assembly – Subhas a local rapper and Natalie who is a local designer – and they reached out to The T Project, and they’re both straight and cis. I think they’re straight, I don’t want to assume but I’m assuming that they’re straight. And they both reached out to us and were like, “Hey, we designed this T-shirt to support you guys.” I think that even if you feel like you don’t have money, if you’re broke and you can’t donate, yes, of course, that’s totally understandable. But there are ways to help; it doesn’t hurt to reach out and ask how you might be able to help.
Q: Is there anything else that you would like to add before we wrap up?
K: Yes, what I was saying is, if you’re an ally who wants to volunteer – I would say this to a volunteer in any arena – don’t feel bad that you don’t know everything. I didn’t know as much as I know now when I first started volunteering at The T Project and it’s okay, I don’t think people have a right to make you feel bad for not knowing everything that you don’t know. I think that you are not expected to be a paragon of knowledge. I think the community needs allies, it just needs people, it needs anybody, it really needs anyone. So whatever way that you can contribute, think about contributing. It doesn’t have to be a lot, it doesn’t have to cost a lot of money, it doesn’t have to take a lot of your time. Whatever small way you can do it, just do it and if that includes talking to your friends about things, do that too. There’s tons of ways. And don’t hide it. Just be out, be out as an ally. The LGBT+ community needs to know that there are people out there who have their back and care about this, and every person counts.